I'm going to say something hard and ugly here. But only to demonstrate a point. Please bear with me and take no offense. I certainly mean none.

Take a quick read through these opening paragraphs, offered by a fellow by the name of Bob Pyne. Bob is, I imagine, something of a big-wig in the emergent church right now - hob-nobbing with the likes of Brian McClaren, et al.

And, Bob is explaining how he "changed his mind" about the role of women in ministry.

When I was a theology professor, people frequently asked me about the role of women in ministry. I used to tell them I held to “complementarianism,” a word with far too many syllables. The label stands for a belief that, while women and men have equal dignity and value, they occupy distinct roles in church and in the home. Proponents of this position believe the Bible places restrictions on a woman’s service in the body of Christ. I no longer believe that, and I now attend a church with a female senior pastor. Clearly something has changed, but it was not my view of biblical authority. My interpretation of the Bible, however, has been recently renovated.

My perspective began changing when some respected friends and colleagues told me that, to them, the silencing of women’s voices did not seem like equal value. Neither did denying opportunity on the basis of gender communicate equal dignity. [emphasis mine]

All that I want to point out, for now, is this: Where exactly in the Bible does it teach that men and women have equal dignity, or equal value with men?

It doesn't.

He's started with a faulty premesis. He's set up a false argument in an easily assailable fashion, and the rest of his article then goes on to do just that.

He even does it by refering to the very scriptures that he is now dismissing.

Those conversations opened my eyes. I had downplayed the Old Testament passages that treated women as property, spoils of war, or trophies for victorious men. I had not noticed that Deuteronomy 22 orders rapists to be fined and then given their victims in marriage. When I saw the way accused women were tested for adultery in passages such as Numbers 5, it never occurred to me that there was no similar test for men.

Note the terms such as "these conversations opened my eyes", and "my perspective began changing when respected friends...".

By his own admission, neither the Word of God, nor the Holy Spirit are involved in "teaching you all things necessary unto salvation". Instead, he is being persuaded by the will and "wisdom" of the flesh - men (or women). Not the instruction of scripture.

He plainly delivers the very scripture that would teach him proper wisdom in this matter.

Let's face it. According to God, the victim IS to be given to the rapist, and there is no similar test for men.

It doesn't really matter much how unpleasant we find God's commandments to be. They are what they are, and God has delivered them. To claim that while "stated and on the record, they are not what God really wants" is to accuse God of flippancy or outright hypocrisy.

In the case of the law according to Deuteronomy, as stated, they are exactly what God wants IN THAT CASE, and as such, they do in fact reflect and communicate His "ideal."

For Bob Pyne to dismiss God's commandment because he "feels impressed by the counsel of men" otherwise is not right or just at all.

The bottom line is, as "repugnant" as the Word of God is to Bob Pyne, God has said what God has said, and who the hell does Bob think he is? Will a man instruct God? Will Bob?

I'll be the first to admit that Deut. 22 has some hard things to say to us. But the solution is not to pretend that God hasn't said them.

Again, people like Pyne get away with this because there is no fear of God before them. They have a flawed view of God, and of themselves. (See That's Mighty Big Of You.)

Their flawed view of God manifests itself. They do not fear God as the terrible, fearful and powerful God that he is. It doesn't occur to them that "God is not like a man", and "His thoughts are not our thoughts" and "His ways are not our ways." There's no realization that God is utterly, and fundamentally, irrevocably distinct from us. He is NOT LIKE US.

And they have a flawed view of themselves. You want to know why the Bible doesn't describe women as being of "equal dignity" and "equal value" as men? Because (brace yourself), the Bible already describes them as both absolutely equal in their worthlessness and evil.

None of us, whether male or female, have any "dignity" or any value before the Lord God of Israel at all! NONE! ZERO! ZIP! NADA!

Again, he saves us primarily because He can, and because only He can, and because He is glorified by doing so. And that is the only reason! Our "value" and "dignity" don't enter into it - and thank God it doesn't. If it depended on my dignity or value, I'd be on a greased pole straight into the deepest part of Hell - right now!



So as hard as His sayings may seem to us, God yet says them.

God felt it sufficient to say "Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

Frankly, I don't care what the hell Bob has to say contrarywise. Let him make up his own law.

Oh, yeah... I forget... He already has.